NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 7, 2011 18:24:54 GMT
Who are the gamblers on here?
I requested the exchange betfair to put up markets for the Uk Elite League matches, seeing as Bet365, paddypower, william hill, Victor chandler & bwin usually have markets up.
So on a trial basis, betfair (www.betfair.com) agreed to put up a few markets for the Nottingham Panthers v Belfast Giants game tonight. This includes betting in running, so if you are not at the game tonight, and are interested in betting; take a look.
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Post by messier1851 on Jan 7, 2011 18:32:06 GMT
Who are the gamblers on here? I requested the exchange betfair to put up markets for the Uk Elite League matches, seeing as Bet365, paddypower, william hill, Victor chandler & bwin usually have markets up. So on a trial basis, betfair (www.betfair.com) agreed to put up a few markets for the Nottingham Panthers v Belfast Giants game tonight. This includes betting in running, so if you are not at the game tonight, and are interested in betting; take a look. Or even if you are at the game, Betfair have an iPhone/Blackberry app. Dangerous huh!?
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 7, 2011 18:37:48 GMT
Yeah, I forget about modern technology. I doubt there will be much liquidity mind. I'm trying to drum up support on the betfair forum, other sports section.
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Post by martin on Jan 7, 2011 19:21:01 GMT
No liquidity => potential arbitrage opportunity. Exploit if you can. I can't be arsed as am watching game.
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 7, 2011 19:23:54 GMT
I have done pre-match, I backed belfast 2.8 at paddypower, laid off completely at around 2.1 on betfair.
So I'll sit back with a few beers and watch the match. I'll see if any odds are being offered in between periods..
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Post by Heanor Lair on Jan 7, 2011 23:41:51 GMT
Im a betting man, but frankly would never bet on Elite League games - there are shall we say too many err 'factors' that can comprimise the games to even bother doing spread betting.
HL
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 8, 2011 13:29:39 GMT
Im a betting man, but frankly would never bet on Elite League games - there are shall we say too many err 'factors' that can comprimise the games to even bother doing spread betting. HL That's why i'm surprised bookies take bets on it. They truly will take bets on anything these days. I've just thought of a way Vipers can get some money in...
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No 29
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 123
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Post by No 29 on Jan 8, 2011 15:00:57 GMT
Markets are up on betfair for today's games
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jan 8, 2011 15:54:47 GMT
Jesus, i'm angry enough after some games, to have lost cash on a game because of the aforementioned 'factors' would probably push me over the edge!
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 8, 2011 16:50:14 GMT
Nice, I sent an e-mail this morning to betfair, and now they have got fixtures up for the next 7 days. I just made a big withdrawel today though so I haven't got so much money to play on the markets now.
Not that I wanted it to end like this, but a regulation draw, before belfast winning was the best result for me moneywise.
The bookies have priced up the team who had a gruelling match last night as favourites, against a team on an 18 match winning streak. That can't be right. ..
Paddypower odds: Nottingham are 2.25 (5/4) to win in regulation time Cardiff are 2.4 (7/5) to win regulation tie is priced at 4 (3/1)
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 9, 2011 9:36:35 GMT
Staggered that any bookie would pay out on some of the games I have seen this year tbh.
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 9, 2011 10:28:15 GMT
I got paid out OK on newcastle's victory over the caps last night. Stake wise I'll probably be getting a maximum limit of 50p imposed soon though, as bookies don't like it when punters have an edge over them and are taking money off them.
The bookie "Bwin" must have realised the uk league is a bit "dodgy" (amateurish) as they appear to have stopped putting up odds. They used to put game odds up a couple of days before the matches faced off, and well before any other bookie as well.
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Post by playmaker on Jan 9, 2011 11:36:10 GMT
Can anyone please explain how decimal odds work and what is the lay? it seems very confusing, I bet quite often on football but its the traditional odds like 2/1 and 5/2 etc. I would like to have a bet on ice hockey but will probably end up losing money as I dont understand decimal odds! also do the odds change as the match goes on? thanks!
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Post by Alf Garnett on Jan 9, 2011 12:34:01 GMT
Can anyone please explain how decimal odds work and what is the lay? it seems very confusing, I bet quite often on football but its the traditional odds like 2/1 and 5/2 etc. I would like to have a bet on ice hockey but will probably end up losing money as I dont understand decimal odds! also do the odds change as the match goes on? thanks! The decimal odds are basically a multipyer or your stake. eg £10 at 2/1 returns £30 so therefore 3.0 is the equivalent of 2/1 etc. Anything below 2.0 is basically odds-on. e.g 1.8 is the same as 4/5 in traditional odds. The 'lay' to me means that you are the bookmaker on an exchange. Therefore if you laid the Panthers last night at 2.25 and someone had bet £20 you would have stood to lose £45. I don't know exactly how these exchanges work when it comes to laying bets. There is presumably a system in place whereby the layer can limit his liability? Over to Heanor Lair or someone more experienced on that one I'm afraid. Someone also mentioned spread betting earlier on in the thread. that is totally different to betting exchanges. if there were markets for spread betting they would include total PiMs, winning margins and match goals etc. Hope this helps.
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No 29
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 123
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Post by No 29 on Jan 9, 2011 13:30:19 GMT
The 'lay' to me means that you are the bookmaker on an exchange. Therefore if you laid the Panthers last night at 2.25 and someone had bet £20 you would have stood to lose £45. I don't know exactly how these exchanges work when it comes to laying bets. There is presumably a system in place whereby the layer can limit his liability? Over to Heanor Lair or someone more experienced on that one I'm afraid. Yes, the layer is limited in much the same way as the bettor on the other side. If I you lay £20 at 2.25 to match that bet (£20 at 2.25) , the limit of your liability is £25, potential winnings £20 (less commission at betfair). The guy who makes the bet can lose £20 or make a profit of £25 (plus getting his £20 stake back).
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 9, 2011 13:30:32 GMT
I use a site called "oddschecker" which compares bookmaker prices so you can see who gives the best odds. On oddschecker you have the option to change the site settings (bottom left hand corner) so you can have them showing as decimals, fractions, american odds which I don't don't understand, or even - "winning odds"! In "winning odds" you select a stake to see how much you would win, IF your bet wins. Also oddschecker is handy for me as I have accounts with about 30 bookies, so you can can just click on the market & your bet, with the bookie you want, then you'll get the online betting slip coming up for what you have selected. Link below is to oddschecker.com UK ice hockey page. It is only showing "Betfair prices" at the moment. Betfair is a betting exchange so is different to a traditional bookmaker. www.oddschecker.com/ice-hockey/ukjust on spreadbetting: there isn't any as such for the uk ice hockey, but there are markets offered at bet365 & paddypower on outcomes like: over/under 6.5 goals in regulation time handicap betting - i.e. betting when the outsider is given a goal or two start.
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Post by playmaker on Jan 9, 2011 13:35:05 GMT
Can anyone please explain how decimal odds work and what is the lay? it seems very confusing, I bet quite often on football but its the traditional odds like 2/1 and 5/2 etc. I would like to have a bet on ice hockey but will probably end up losing money as I dont understand decimal odds! also do the odds change as the match goes on? thanks! The decimal odds are basically a multipyer or your stake. eg £10 at 2/1 returns £30 so therefore 3.0 is the equivalent of 2/1 etc. Anything below 2.0 is basically odds-on. e.g 1.8 is the same as 4/5 in traditional odds. The 'lay' to me means that you are the bookmaker on an exchange. Therefore if you laid the Panthers last night at 2.25 and someone had bet £20 you would have stood to lose £45. I don't know exactly how these exchanges work when it comes to laying bets. There is presumably a system in place whereby the layer can limit his liability? Over to Heanor Lair or someone more experienced on that one I'm afraid. Someone also mentioned spread betting earlier on in the thread. that is totally different to betting exchanges. if there were markets for spread betting they would include total PiMs, winning margins and match goals etc. Hope this helps. Ahh yes thanks I understand the decimals bit now its basically your stake multiplied by the decimal = your total payout (inc your stake back) for example if I put £10 on a 1.2 odd I would get back £12 but my profit would only be £2 I think this is correct? However I still dont understand the lay. I tried reading a bit about it on the internet but that basically says you are betting on whatever it is your betting on to lose rather than to win but how do you know your return? lets say I laid the panthers to lose tonite (not that I will) and they did go to hull and lose, how do you know what somebody has bet against you to workout your return? hope this makes sense thanks
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 9, 2011 14:39:22 GMT
[/quote] However I still dont understand the lay. I tried reading a bit about it on the internet but that basically says you are betting on whatever it is your betting on to lose rather than to win but how do you know your return? lets say I laid the panthers to lose tonite (not that I will) and they did go to hull and lose, how do you know what somebody has bet against you to workout your return? hope this makes sense thanks[/quote]
I assume you might have also looked at the help topics on the betfair site?
It would be easier to explain and understand if you check a football match market. Take for example Man u v liverpool which is happening at the moment.
e.g. odds on Man utd maybe 1.49 to back, 1.50 (1/2 as a fraction) to lay. So if you went and had a £2 bet laying Man utd to win; your liability would be £1. i.e. If man utd went onto win the match you would lose £1 as your bet would have lost. If Man utd fail to win the match, your bet would be a winner, and you would win your stake, so in this case £2. (minus the comission of upto 5% at betfair on winning bets)
The thing is there are tens of thousands of people betting on football, but only a handful of people will be wanting to bet on the uk hockey. So if you don't see a price up on a hockey market that you want to match, then you would have to leave a price up, in the hope that someone matches the price that you've left up.
Note that at face off time, all unmatched bets are cancelled, and the markets are turned inplay. So you can leave a stake up at a particular price, and if it doesn't get matched before face off, then the unmatched stake will be returned back to your account.
I hope this has helped.
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Post by Alf Garnett on Jan 9, 2011 15:52:56 GMT
In simple english playmaker the ammount you would stand to lose is the same as the ammount you would win if you were backing. The only difference is that you are one the other side of the counter if you are laying.
If for example I offered 5/4 (2.25) and you bet 20 you would stand to win the £45 - That is £25 wiinings plus your stake returned. I as the 'layer' would stand to lose the £45 £20 of which you would have already deposited in my account by 'backing' the Panthers.
Hope this helps.
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Post by playmaker on Jan 9, 2011 16:39:57 GMT
Thanks for all the help I understand alot better now, simply if you lay you are the bookmaker, seems like quite a good betting system aslong as there is enough people interested in having a bet. In your experience is there many people betting on british ice hockey?
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 9, 2011 17:20:39 GMT
no not many.
Must be enough for a few of the online bookies to take money on it, but I can't see there being much interest. The NHL & the European Leagues which are more professionally run, would be a lot more popular for betting on.
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Jan 9, 2011 17:48:07 GMT
Panthers are evens with paddypower tonight!! Very intresting. Iv never seen them higher than 1.6 at the very most in Hull!
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Post by Alf Garnett on Jan 9, 2011 18:01:03 GMT
13/8 for Hull seemed like a decent bet to me with it being our 3rd game in 3 nights
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NP
Lorne Smith
Posts: 706
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Post by NP on Jan 9, 2011 18:14:02 GMT
That might be due to me lumping on hull, which meant their odds came in, while Nottingham were pushed out to evens. This is Nottm's 3rd game in 3 days after all.
Hull were 3.75 (11/4) at williamhill when they first put the market up. I had some of the evens on Nottm & the 4.8 draw price to keep things as balanced as I could.
I notice the game started at 17.55 (monitoring tcw) so 5 minutes early, must be very unusual for that to happen. Hull started the match really well, but it is Panthers who have taken the lead.
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Jan 10, 2011 12:08:30 GMT
That might be due to me lumping on hull, which meant their odds came in, while Nottingham were pushed out to evens. This is Nottm's 3rd game in 3 days after all. Hull were 3.75 (11/4) at williamhill when they first put the market up. I had some of the evens on Nottm & the 4.8 draw price to keep things as balanced as I could. I notice the game started at 17.55 (monitoring tcw) so 5 minutes early, must be very unusual for that to happen. Hull started the match really well, but it is Panthers who have taken the lead. Unless you threw down 10s of thousands, I doubt it would affect odds tbh, they seem very reluctant(bookies in general) to change odds on hockey unless they put them up days before (which they are reluctant to do)and a major injury happens in the meantime.
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