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Post by Kimberley on Jun 25, 2006 11:31:17 GMT
Nonsense, he has won more than his fair share of tackles in the middle. As for creating chances, that's not his game, he's the one going forward and (usually) taking them. Whilst he's missing them at the moment i'm not too bothered. It's when he fails to even be in the situation to miss them that i'll worry. How about the fact that he is being selfish. his desire to score that first goal is so strong it is making him ignore the pass to players in better positions. Right now he is doing a panthers and shooting straight at the goalie. Against Sweden he did not even have the excuse that he had to drop back and sit in front of the back four and he was still invisible. I really hope that he picks up his game today.
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Higgy
Les Strongman
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Post by Higgy on Jun 25, 2006 17:21:27 GMT
Well another boring game (apart from the last twenty mins) but somehow we scrape through yet again woo, great free kick by beckham and great performance by Ashley Cole, we still need to imrpove drastically if we will beat either Holland or Portugal though
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andyd
Ken Westman
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Post by andyd on Jun 25, 2006 22:09:13 GMT
A workmanlike display.
It is REALLY getting to me how negative everyone is being about England, everywhere not just here. Hello...we are in the Quarter Finals of the World Cup!
Just like against T&T Ecuador showed up looking more interested in playing for penalties than actually playing the game and it's always hard to beat a team with 10 men behind the ball.
Seriously how many chances did Ecuador have apart from the garish mistake by Ferdinand/Terry that Ashley Cole rescued with a super human block? Not one, that's how many.
We did enough and that's all that matters. In each game we have done enough to get what we needed, nothing flashy just quietly moving on through looking disjointed and playing crap football. Those are the teams to look out for in the World Cup, it's virtually unheard of for a team constantly playing free flowing football to win the thing, its the grafters that get there and right now that's exactly what England are.
Mexico were brilliant against the Argies last night and it got them a plane ticket home, we were pretty poor today against Ecuador and yet we're still in there.
Let's not forget we are now playing Portugal who will be without Deco, Costinha and likely Ronaldo, also if there is any justice Figo will be banned for his disgraceful headbutt. On top of that the rest of the team will be walking on egg shells to avoid getting a ban after tonights farce when they virtually all got booked. If we screw it up on Saturday we deserve shooting.
As for the game itseld Beckham had a shocker as did Lampard (the one time he should have hit it he tried to lay it back!). Ashley Cole and Carrick were excellent and Rooney was tireless. We up our game against the bigger teams, it's always been the way (Holland in Euro '96 anyone?) so hopefully we will see a much improved display once again when we play a half decent team for the first time against Portugal.
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BIG-BAD-TONE
Ashley Tait
...win or lose have a booze
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Post by BIG-BAD-TONE on Jul 1, 2006 18:24:57 GMT
JUST REMEMBER
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Johnson
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by Johnson on Jul 1, 2006 18:38:46 GMT
England Vs Portugal:
Well i just have to say i think the boys did well. They stuck at it and forced extra time, i think we looked the closest to scoring in extra time aswell. Rooney being sent off was a joke, a utter joke! Ronaldo and Carvalho are just complete cheaters! i for one hope Ronney has a little word with Ronaldo when they meet up with each other at the Man Utd camp, like a headbut!. Also want to say a word about Owen Hargreaves, now i will be the first to admit that i feel his place in the England team is wrong, but he proved today that he can perform, and i feel he was our best player on the pitch. His energy levels were just too good, out shone everyone. The Refereeing was dire, thats all i am saying!
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
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Post by MP on Jul 1, 2006 22:48:26 GMT
Funny how we all see a different game!
Didn't see much wrong with the refereeing. Rooney lost his head - as he's prone to do when frustrated - stamped at the Portuguese player right in front of the referee and had to go.
England's tactics were the crux of the matter. Playing 4-5-1 might make the best of a bad job to cover for the fact we had no strikers but it wasted our biggest asset - Rooney.
Both teams seemed more worried about losing than winning - ironic that England played much better when reduced to 10 men. In extra time they looked much the better team but failed to score. Portugal looked a very ordinary team, lacked ambition and should have been there for the taking.
Not much point in playing for penalties if you can't convert them. After all our failures in penalty shoot outs you'd think they'd make a real effort to practice the skill. But no, well though Riccardo did in the Portuguese goal, our players gave him every chance with penalties struck low and not very wide. The Germans and Portuguese were confident enough to place their's high and wide in the goal giving the keeper no chance.
Oh well, in all honesty Engalnd played pretty poor football throughout and were found wanting when it really mattered. No complaints about our exit - we may have some talented players but they don't deliver when it matters.
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Post by hitman69 on Jul 1, 2006 22:52:28 GMT
England Vs Portugal: Well i just have to say i think the boys did well. They stuck at it and forced extra time, i think we looked the closest to scoring in extra time aswell. Rooney being sent off was a joke, a utter joke! Ronaldo and Carvalho are just complete cheaters! i for one hope Ronney has a little word with Ronaldo when they meet up with each other at the Man Utd camp, like a headbut!. Also want to say a word about Owen Hargreaves, now i will be the first to admit that i feel his place in the England team is wrong, but he proved today that he can perform, and i feel he was our best player on the pitch. His energy levels were just too good, out shone everyone. The Refereeing was dire, thats all i am saying! Have too agree with most of that, i'll add one thing, in the premiership, 38 games, how often do the 11,12, 13 how ever many players it was , play for extra time and penalties? On a saturday or which ever day they are playing dont they play to win? Wages or country? What do you think?
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andyd
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Post by andyd on Jul 1, 2006 23:58:30 GMT
Can't agree re the sending off MP. There was absolutely NO stamping action by Rooney, it looked more a case of a loss of balance in a tussle for the ball when Carvalho had gone to ground, he had his legs wrapped around Rooney who simply had nowhere else for his foot to go but he didn't stamp it down! The ref was going to do nothing other than give a free kick until Ronaldo waded into the piece, very lacking in class if you ask me and FIFA have to clamp down on players trying to influence the ref. The ref was laughable...in the first half he blew up if we went within a yard of any Portuguese player and then sent Rooney off when it seemed he was influenced by the players. An Argentinian ref gets the England Quarter Final...hmmmm, surely not the best appointment by FIFA? As it was England played much better with 10 men and deserved to win...we were very unfortunate not to find a way through. Hats off to Ricardo in the shoot out, he really does make himself big and is a master of keeping them out. We took some woeful penalties but that's England. As soon as we get to a shoot out both players and fans alike have that "Oh crap...we never win this" attitude and it showed. It doesn't surprise me that the one scorer was Hargreaves, he has the German mentality from playing for Bayern. It didn't help that 4 of our top penalty takers were missing either, Rooney, Beckham, Owen and J. Cole. Yet again we don't get what we deserved but it is what it is, soul crushing day...
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Post by v on Jul 2, 2006 0:22:16 GMT
Deffo agree with AndyD, with regard to Rooney's sending off.... from my point of view it seemed unintentional, & a tangle of legs. Still...what's done is done. I don't agree with MrD on 'England Not Getting What They Deserve'...they on the whole have had a flat tournament, & not played at all convincingly at any stage. They lacked flair, imagination, & an out & out sniper. Crouch looked clumsy & awkward, Owen was never fit, Rooney was heavily marked as a lone striker..& never got the decent balls with which to work with.
Even as a WALES fan, I was saddened to see England fall out the cup. Hey Ho!
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andyd
Ken Westman
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Post by andyd on Jul 2, 2006 0:26:09 GMT
I don't agree with MrD on 'England Not Getting What They Deserve'...they on the whole have had a flat tournament, & not played at all convincingly at any stage. They lacked flair, imagination, & an out & out sniper. Sorry Tony...in that comment I mean didn't get what they deserved in that particular game, over the course of the tournament England didn't really deserve to go further.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
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Post by MP on Jul 2, 2006 23:45:15 GMT
Can't agree re the sending off MP. There was absolutely NO stamping action by Rooney, it looked more a case of a loss of balance in a tussle for the ball when Carvalho had gone to ground, he had his legs wrapped around Rooney who simply had nowhere else for his foot to go but he didn't stamp it down! Open to interpretation I guess but Rooney himself didn't seem to contest the decision which tells it's own tale. Certainly agree with you about players pressurising referees regarding bookings etc. It's a disgrace and needs clamping down on. Same with diving - far too much of it in this tournament again. But then, the refereeing has been pretty poor in most of the games I've seen so far. Brings back fond memories of Collina being cheered onto the pitch by the fans in Portugal a couple of years back - everyone knew they were in for a good game where the players knew exactly where they stood and that the rules would be implemented firmly, fairly and with consistency. And dissent wouldn't be tolerated. Took a while for people to realize how good Collina's approach was but he ran some pretty good football matches. Pity football in general doesn't seem able to enforce it's own rules in a sensible manner - the NHL showed it can be done during last season.
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Post by newham on Jul 3, 2006 0:30:33 GMT
Rooney was in shock. Watch the video, there was zero intent. I'm still peeved about it.
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Post by v on Jul 3, 2006 0:37:42 GMT
Most interesting to see it was Ronaldo, who was pushing the ref to 'punish' Rooney. Wonder what the atmosphere will be between the two of them, in the Man Ure, dressing room next season. Biggest niggle for me watching the game, was seeing the Portuguese, look for the refs reaction, as they often threw themselves to the floor. Cheating/Diving gits!
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sunbeam
David Clarke
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 3, 2006 12:41:40 GMT
If a Portugese player had done that to Rooney we all would have called for a red card. At the very least it was a yellow and the push on Ronaldo was another yellow. Rooney admits he sometimes loses it and has sought professional help. He still has a way to go.
The bottom-line is that Crouch played better than Rooney anyway. It's a role that doesn't suit Wayne and he's not heped by the fact that too many people hype him up to better than he is. He did little in the whole tournament but people talk of him being a 'white Pele'. As Deco said, Rooney is very good but people need to get a grip. He's still got a lot to prove.
As for the others:
Robinson - shaky on crosses, terrible kicking but is still young. Neville - good defensively Rio - a good tournament. Raised his game yet again. Terry - ok but not as good as Rio Cole - never lets England down.
Becks - poor overral but still got 3 assists and a goal Gerrard - worked hard but had to do the work of two men Lampard - didn't let me down. Most overrated player in the universe. Cole - Only player with flair
Rooney - tried his best. Missed a great chance v Portugal. Needs a partner. Crouch - good link up play. Poor finishing. Owen - poor. 12 months ago Wenger, Rafa, Fergie and Jose said 'no thanks'. They were right. Lennon - excellent impact. Hargreaves - made a mockery of Lineker, Wright and Hansen. Excellent in all his roles throughout.
Team to play Greece:
Robbo/ Neville, Rio, Terry, Cole/ Hargreaves/ Lennon, Gerrard, Cole/ Rooney/ Theo.
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Post by newham on Jul 3, 2006 13:43:56 GMT
I disagree Sunny, a yellow would have been sufficient, regardless of who it was Do you honestly think he had balance there?
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 3, 2006 15:05:21 GMT
I disagree Sunny, a yellow would have been sufficient, regardless of who it was Do you honestly think he had balance there? He'd still get a yellow for the push. He had to go. We'd go mental if if happened against us and they guy stayed on. He's lucky that all the stick is flying Ronaldo's way. Not that Ronaldo did much. We always like to have someone to blame after we get eliminated. We sucked and we only have ourselves to blame.
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Ian
Matt Myers
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Post by Ian on Jul 3, 2006 15:07:11 GMT
In a tournament where refs have been giving out cards for looking at players a bit funny, all the players should know how careful they have to be.
In view of that, getting involved in any kind of trampling/leg wrestling/stamping incident is plain stupid and to follow it up by forcefully shoving the opposition player who comes over to remonstrate (even if it was that cheating, arrogant individual that goes by the name of Cristiano Ronaldo) is indisciplined and irresponsible. Whether a red was harsh or not, Rooney let the team down big style by even getting involved in it and running the risk. Big games are a time for a mature approach and a cool head, not behaving like a spoilt little schoolkid and taking out his frustrations at his performance and the previous missed chance.
Much as Ronaldo deserves to be villified for his part in the incident and his continuous attempts to win the game by underhand means, Rooney deserves some harsh criticism for his selfish and petulant attitude. The public response to Beckham's red card in 98 made him as a player and as a person (despite the occasional blip since), we have to hope that the same happens with Wayne Rooney. The day after the Argentina match in 98, one of the tabloids had the headline "Ten English Lions, One Stupid Boy". They should have re-used it on Sunday morning.
Overall, England's chances would probably have been enhanced if Eriksson had been forced to leave Rooney at home. He made no tangible contribution to such progress as we did make, the hoopla surrounding his injury was a distraction for everybody, not least the coach who should have been concentrating on his tactics with his fit players, and his sending off ultimately played a big part in us failing to make the last four (I believe we would have gone on to win a poor game by a single goal playing with eleven men).
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 3, 2006 16:42:37 GMT
I'm no fan of Ronaldo whatsoever but he didn't do a lot. His mate got stamped in the nuts so he complained to the ref.
Is that a big deal?
I suspect Rooney really got sent off for the push and wonder if the ref saw the stamp at all. We'll never know.
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andyd
Ken Westman
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Post by andyd on Jul 3, 2006 17:12:04 GMT
The simple fact is sunny that if Rooney was Portuguese (or Italian, or Spanish, or French, or Argentinian, or Brazilian...) he would have gone down when Carvalho was hanging off him and got a free kick 20 seconds before the so called "stamp" (which it wasn't). Fact is he is an honest pro...if he cheated by going down like a sack of spuds like Ronaldo and co we'd have still had 11 men. He got punished for being an honest pro who should have been given the call in his favour before the incident got as far as it did.
That's the real shame of it.
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Post by Alf Garnett on Jul 3, 2006 20:59:15 GMT
It's about the only time Rooney hit the target in this tourney. As Sunbeam said we sucked (Slightly OTT IMO) but were were ordinary at best and couldn't raise our game when needed. FWIW I don't expect a sweeping revolution under McLaren. Probably more of the same.
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Post by newham on Jul 3, 2006 21:47:47 GMT
I'm no fan of Ronaldo whatsoever but he didn't do a lot. His mate got stamped in the nuts so he complained to the ref. Is that a big deal? I suspect Rooney really got sent off for the push and wonder if the ref saw the stamp at all. We'll never know. Ronaldo ran 30 yards to scream to the ref to get his own team-mate sent off. Andy, it wasn't great under Sven, but have a look at who was running the training during his tenure....Yes, Mr McLaren...
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sunbeam
David Clarke
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 4, 2006 12:21:15 GMT
Ronaldo did nothing that 99% of players would do. Incl Rooney. If a teammate gets hurt then players complain. Intentional or not it was a red card offence. Players mis-time tackles and get reds and players would expect to get a red for what Rooney did. All the Ronaldo stuff has done is cloud the issue and stick that would have gone Rooney's way is going Ronaldo's instead. I suspect Rooney will get more flak for what happened in years to come. The simple fact is sunny that if Rooney was Portuguese (or Italian, or Spanish, or French, or Argentinian, or Brazilian...) he would have gone down when Carvalho was hanging off him and got a free kick 20 seconds before the so called "stamp" (which it wasn't). Fact is he is an honest pro...if he cheated by going down like a sack of spuds like Ronaldo and co we'd have still had 11 men. He got punished for being an honest pro who should have been given the call in his favour before the incident got as far as it did. That's the real shame of it. Yeah he could've gone down. He chose not to. In the future he may choose to go down. Henry said as much after the Champs League final and he got his revenge on Puyol by his theatrics in the France v Spain match. So maybe Rooney should hit the deck. Like he did v France in 2004 when he got barely touched and won us a penalty. Or like Gerrard did v AC Milan. Or like Owen did v Argentina. Or like Lineker did v Cameroon.............. As for Stevie Mac - I made my views clear at the time. Don't be surprised if we struggle to top Russia and Croatia and even qualify for Euro 2008.
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 4, 2006 15:01:01 GMT
WHAT I DID ON MY SUMMER HOLS
By Theo Walcott Esq aged 8 1/2
I went to a place called Germany with my Uncle Sven and some other grown up's. It is a country in Europe where a bad man called Adolf used to live with his nazties, he does not live there anymore, Uncle Owen does live there, and the grown up's say I cant talk about the bad man as it will make Uncle Owen cry if I do. In Germany there are lots of castles and some mountains. We are staying in a place called Baden Baden that's a silly name, Uncle Frank has the same name as his dad, that's silly too, his mum must get their underpants mixed up all the time.
On the aeroplane Uncle Sol sat next to me, he got me some toffee and wants to be my friend, he works at the place where I do my YTS, so does Uncle Freddy but him and Uncle Sol are not best friends anymore.
Uncle Owen met us at the airport, he talks foreign, Uncle Wayne, Uncle Steven and Uncle David also talk funny, my mum says Uncle David talks like Orville, he is a duck, Uncle Sol say's uncle David wears dresses and knickers, and asked me if I had ever worn them. Uncle Sol got me some pop.
In Germany the grown ups are going to play football, my grandad says we beat them in the olden days before my mum was born. That is a long time ago.
While the grown up's went to play football I went shopping with Auntie Vicky and some other girls she bought me a big ice cream and got herself a little one but she said she was full before she had eaten any and threw it away. She bought lots of shoes and handbags and let me play with Brooklyn. She say's she used to be in a pop band and sang me one of her songs, I think she was telling fibs.
I told Uncle Sol about my day out with Vicky and he sulked, then he bought me an even bigger ice cream with lots of hundred's & thousands on it.
All the other grown up's have a girlfriend except Uncle Sol so he plays with me while they go out. Uncle Sven says I must keep Uncle Sol happy, that's why I got taken on holiday.
The grown up's went to play Football against somebody called Sweden, Uncle Sol was crying as Uncle Freddy played for them and would not talk to him. Uncle Sol bought me lots of toffee today and some crisps. Uncle Sven is from Sweden and I heard him on the phone to their boss last night. Uncle Michael hurt his knee and had to go home to his mum for a plaster. Uncle Peter is a giant, a proper giant like you see in books, he is rubbish at football though.
Uncle Wayne had a sore toe at the start of out holiday but it got better so they let him play football. Uncle Sol got me a present but I do not like it. He says all Germans wear leather underpants and I should while we are here, they are too tight for me.
All the grown up's started to call Uncle Wayne a potato head who stood on somebodys spuds. He got shouted at by the referee. They are all saying that we have to go home now. Uncle Sol was crying again and I had to sit on his knee to make him stop. He had his mobile phone in his pocket, I think.
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 7, 2006 11:04:13 GMT
Clive Woodward in today's Sun has criticised our penalty taking. He had another idea in how to practise them:
A target in each top corner. After training has ended the penalty taker has to hit the target 5 consecutive times before he can leave the training pitch. If he misses one he has to start again until he's successfully 'scored' 5 times. This method would intensify the pressure as the shooter is keen to get off home.
Golfers do it with 2 metre putts and won't leave the putting green until they've drained 6 on the trot.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
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Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
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Post by Ian on Jul 7, 2006 11:22:12 GMT
Clive Woodward in today's Sun has criticised our penalty taking. He had another idea in how to practise them: A target in each top corner. After training has ended the penalty taker has to hit the target 5 consecutive times before he can leave the training pitch. If he misses one he has to start again until he's successfully 'scored' 5 times. This method would intensify the pressure as the shooter is keen to get off home. Golfers do it with 2 metre putts and won't leave the putting green until they've drained 6 on the trot. Sounds like a good idea to me. Sounds like a great idea to me. It is this kind of attention to detail and dedication to excellence in all areas of the game that helped England win the rugby world cup. But of course, we can't expect our poor overworked footballers to spend extra time training when they have appointments for fashion shoots or book signings can we? People have dragged up a lot of comparisons between our successful rugby/cricket teams and our mediocre footballers recently but I see the main difference as being that the rugby and cricket teams see themselves (and are seen by others, notably in the media) as exponents of their sport first and foremost. Our footballers are celebrities first and foremost who happen to play football rather than being on a soap or a reality TV show. Until that changes, we will not develop that cutting edge that is required to turn quarter finalists into winners.
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